Street 750 drawbacks and awesome - Harley Davidson Street Forum - Street 500 and 750
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post #1 of 10 Old 04-05-2014, 12:47 AM Thread Starter
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Street 750 drawbacks and awesome

Hi Guys,

I had already booked my street 750 on 1st March. I had taken test drive of 883 and 750. Below are my reviews:

Drawbacks of street 750:

1. Breaks are poor it's feels like drum brakes. Can't be it resolved by installing 2nd disk on front tyre. Any thoughts?
2. Sound is unharley but I hope Vance and Hines will make muffler for 750. Don't confident on Harley's muffler which they are offering in accessories.
3. Wiring are not well managed. This issue could be resolved by wrapping with plastic wrapper.
4. When you see closely this bike, weldings finishing are not good, which could be ignored.
5. Rear seat is only for girls (height 5.3"feet).
6. Front foot rest is quite comfortable for 6 feet guys like me.

Impressive things:

1. Staring pickup is better than 883.
2. This bike is more comfortable than 883 for long drive because of wider handle bar.
3. I am too much impressed with cornering (during turn).
4. Horse power and torque is awesome you can see dyno test in cycleworld.com.
5. Bike looks are awesome.

I am requesting senior members to comment on drawbacks

Thanks
Devender Singh
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post #2 of 10 Old 04-05-2014, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by dsbrar16 View Post
Hi Guys,

I had already booked my street 750 on 1st March. I had taken test drive of 883 and 750. Below are my reviews:

Drawbacks of street 750:

1. Breaks are poor it's feels like drum brakes. Can't be it resolved by installing 2nd disk on front tyre. Any thoughts?
2. Sound is unharley but I hope Vance and Hines will make muffler for 750. Don't confident on Harley's muffler which they are offering in accessories.
3. Wiring are not well managed. This issue could be resolved by wrapping with plastic wrapper.
4. When you see closely this bike, weldings finishing are not good, which could be ignored.
5. Rear seat is only for girls (height 5.3"feet).
6. Front foot rest is quite comfortable for 6 feet guys like me.

Impressive things:

1. Staring pickup is better than 883.
2. This bike is more comfortable than 883 for long drive because of wider handle bar.
3. I am too much impressed with cornering (during turn).
4. Horse power and torque is awesome you can see dyno test in cycleworld.com.
5. Bike looks are awesome.

I am requesting senior members to comment on drawbacks

Thanks
Devender Singh
I will throw in my two cents here... some may not agree, but to each, their own.
1) Poor brakes. Why do you NEED the best world class brakes? Are you road course racing the bike? Probably not.
My experience and opinion is this: I have an 06 1200 Sportster. While it does not have the best brakes in the world, it is plenty sufficient to stop me in a hurry. Could the "feel" of the brakes be better? Yes. Does that make the bike unridable? Absolutely not.
I am also a classic car guru, and I see this same thing all the time in the hot rodding world. We are conditioned by all the rags (magazines) that we NEED the best of everything... Brembo brakes, Fatman Fabrications front crossmember and suspension, high performance transmission, yada, yada, yada. Well, I call bullshit. Unless you are autocrossing with your car, you don't NEED all that expensive, ultra performance stuff. Sure, it looks nice, and makes for bragging rights, but you can enjoy the same car with stock suspension, used transmission with an inexpensive shift kit, etc..
2) UnHarley sound. This is not true. It is a Harley Davidson, and as such, it IS the sound of a Harley. What it is NOT, is the sound of an air cooled Harley. If you want that sound, you need to buy an air cooled Harley... period.
3) Wiring. As you mentioned, wrap it if it is such a problem. Not a big deal in my opinion.
4) Welding. I haven't seen the reported "poor" welds, but I personally wouldn't let it bother me. I seriously doubt the frames will come apart. If it bothers you that much, get out the die grinder and clean it up, and touch up the paint... or buy a different bike.

I have read all the articles thus far on the Street models, and all items that are purported to be negative, are minor in my book. I don't believe you will find a bike that meets "total perfection", as it is subjective, and we all have differing opinions. If you like the Street, buy it and enjoy it for what it is.
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post #3 of 10 Old 04-05-2014, 11:43 PM
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I haven't even sat on one yet so it's would not be fair to comment on the bike's qualities. But I will say that once you have had a bike with really great brakes, brakes that talk, you know the difference. When you read justifications for mediocre brakes, like the crap Harley put on their bikes for far too many years (and I have some hands on with those bikes, lots of it actually) you know it is written by someone who has never had a bike with really great brakes trying to justify spending their hard earned on mediocrity.

It isn't just raw stopping power either. Even crummy brakes can often lock the front tire if you have strong enough hands. That won't always save you from a crash. Great brakes talk to you through the lever and tell you what kind of traction you have at the front tire. Most Harleys, with a few exceptions, do not have brakes that talk. They tend to be either wooden, like the brake pucks are made of plywood, or spongy and lack feel. You squeeze the lever but you don't know where your traction limit is, you can't threshold brake effectively, and Harley exacerbates this by using Dot 5 brake fluid in everything but the bikes with Brembo brakes, meaning 2006 and later V-Rods and Baggers. If all you have ridden are Harleys you don't know up from down about great motorcycle brakes.

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post #4 of 10 Old 04-06-2014, 01:04 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stude View Post
I will throw in my two cents here... some may not agree, but to each, their own.
1) Poor brakes. Why do you NEED the best world class brakes? Are you road course racing the bike? Probably not.
My experience and opinion is this: I have an 06 1200 Sportster. While it does not have the best brakes in the world, it is plenty sufficient to stop me in a hurry. Could the "feel" of the brakes be better? Yes. Does that make the bike unridable? Absolutely not.
I am also a classic car guru, and I see this same thing all the time in the hot rodding world. We are conditioned by all the rags (magazines) that we NEED the best of everything... Brembo brakes, Fatman Fabrications front crossmember and suspension, high performance transmission, yada, yada, yada. Well, I call bullshit. Unless you are autocrossing with your car, you don't NEED all that expensive, ultra performance stuff. Sure, it looks nice, and makes for bragging rights, but you can enjoy the same car with stock suspension, used transmission with an inexpensive shift kit, etc..
2) UnHarley sound. This is not true. It is a Harley Davidson, and as such, it IS the sound of a Harley. What it is NOT, is the sound of an air cooled Harley. If you want that sound, you need to buy an air cooled Harley... period.
3) Wiring. As you mentioned, wrap it if it is such a problem. Not a big deal in my opinion.
4) Welding. I haven't seen the reported "poor" welds, but I personally wouldn't let it bother me. I seriously doubt the frames will come apart. If it bothers you that much, get out the die grinder and clean it up, and touch up the paint... or buy a different bike.

I have read all the articles thus far on the Street models, and all items that are purported to be negative, are minor in my book. I don't believe you will find a bike that meets "total perfection", as it is subjective, and we all have differing opinions. If you like the Street, buy it and enjoy it for what it is.
Thanks for you comments. I agreed with you. One question: In auto expo I had seen other mufflers in modified street 750. Will that mufflers will be available for us. Any idea?

Thanks
Devender Singh
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post #5 of 10 Old 04-06-2014, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Desert Tortoise View Post
I haven't even sat on one yet so it's would not be fair to comment on the bike's qualities. But I will say that once you have had a bike with really great brakes, brakes that talk, you know the difference. When you read justifications for mediocre brakes, like the crap Harley put on their bikes for far too many years (and I have some hands on with those bikes, lots of it actually) you know it is written by someone who has never had a bike with really great brakes trying to justify spending their hard earned on mediocrity.

It isn't just raw stopping power either. Even crummy brakes can often lock the front tire if you have strong enough hands. That won't always save you from a crash. Great brakes talk to you through the lever and tell you what kind of traction you have at the front tire. Most Harleys, with a few exceptions, do not have brakes that talk. They tend to be either wooden, like the brake pucks are made of plywood, or spongy and lack feel. You squeeze the lever but you don't know where your traction limit is, you can't threshold brake effectively, and Harley exacerbates this by using Dot 5 brake fluid in everything but the bikes with Brembo brakes, meaning 2006 and later V-Rods and Baggers. If all you have ridden are Harleys you don't know up from down about great motorcycle brakes.
I can't say about any other Harleys except the two Sportys I have had, but you are correct in that there is not much "feel" in the brakes. I would agree with your "wooden" description, but it works for me and my generally laid back riding style.

You mentioned HD using DOT 5 brake fluid thereby exacerbating the poor feel. Why is that?
Also, when I wear my current brake pads out, what would your recommendation be to replace them, which might improve my Sporty brakes? I assume my pads are the originals since the bike only has 7k miles. While I won't go as far as to replace my brake system, I have no problem with "upgrading" when maintenance is due.
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post #6 of 10 Old 04-07-2014, 09:57 AM
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I have heard a number of people say how the brakes can be improved, this should be different for a lot of riders out there as it depends on your riding style.



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post #7 of 10 Old 04-07-2014, 12:16 PM
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lots have complained about the brakes

it'll be interesting to see how people take to fixing this problem
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post #8 of 10 Old 04-07-2014, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by stude View Post
I can't say about any other Harleys except the two Sportys I have had, but you are correct in that there is not much "feel" in the brakes. I would agree with your "wooden" description, but it works for me and my generally laid back riding style.

You mentioned HD using DOT 5 brake fluid thereby exacerbating the poor feel. Why is that?
Also, when I wear my current brake pads out, what would your recommendation be to replace them, which might improve my Sporty brakes? I assume my pads are the originals since the bike only has 7k miles. While I won't go as far as to replace my brake system, I have no problem with "upgrading" when maintenance is due.
DOt 3, DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 brake fluids are glycol-ether based brake fluids and are hydroscopic, meaning they absorb any water that gets into the system. This will lower the boiling point of the brake fluid, but the water stays in solution with the brake fluid. DOT 5 brake fluid is silicon based and it is not hydroscopic. Any moisture that gets into the brake system goes to the low points in the system and stays there as a bubble of water in the fluid. Any crud in the brake fluid will mix with the water. What happens is you end up with a bunch of watery crud at the bottom of the brake calipers and any other low point in the system that does not compress like brake fluid. If you get it hot enough, say from a long down hill run with a load, the water in the brake fluid will boil at the temperature water boils at, 212 F or 100 C, regardless of the boiling point of the brake fluid. Wet DOT 3 or DOT 4 will have a higher boiling point than water. Bubbles in brake fluid are not a good thing for brake feel and this is the reason why racing organizers always ban DOT 5 brake fluid from the track. It can be very dangerous unless you are diligent about brake fluid changes.

Even dry and new, DOT 5 does not seem to transmit as much feel as DOT 4 does. DOT 5 seems to dampen any sensations of what the front tire is doing as you brake.

For street use, it is very hard to beat Galfer Green (organic kevlar) brake pads. Great feel even dead cold, and they hang in there until very hot. Only on a road race course will you generate enough heat to fade them. A sintered pad will be superior to organic kevlar in the rain, but they chew through rotors very fast where organic kevlar won't. Unless you routinely ride in the rain or don't mind the cost of replacing brake rotors frequently I suggest avoiding sintered pads.

Btw, a lot of Harley owners swear by Lyndall brake pads. Lyndall does not manufacture their brake components. They source their house brand name brake pads from Galfer.
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post #9 of 10 Old 04-07-2014, 01:02 PM
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Btw, what year Sportsters? I had old iron barreled Sportys back when that is what Harley was building. Those old bikes were demanding to own and ride. Beat the crap out of you on the road, then break and force you to turn wrenches on them. I got real good loading Sportsters into pick up trucks! When I joined the Navy out of college I sold them and bought my first of many BMWs. In the Navy, being on time is required and there are consequences for being late. I had to have reliable transportation and an iron barreled Sportster is many things but reliable transportation it is not. In three decades plus on BMWs, none has ever stranded me anyplace, which is a lot more than I can say about three years and a half of owning Sportsters. Kludge. So far the V-Rods have been better, but the same electrical failure, a wire that rubs the rear valve cover, has sent it to the dealer on a flatbed three times in six and a half years.

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post #10 of 10 Old 04-07-2014, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Desert Tortoise View Post
Btw, what year Sportsters? I had old iron barreled Sportys back when that is what Harley was building. Those old bikes were demanding to own and ride. Beat the crap out of you on the road, then break and force you to turn wrenches on them. I got real good loading Sportsters into pick up trucks! When I joined the Navy out of college I sold them and bought my first of many BMWs. In the Navy, being on time is required and there are consequences for being late. I had to have reliable transportation and an iron barreled Sportster is many things but reliable transportation it is not. In three decades plus on BMWs, none has ever stranded me anyplace, which is a lot more than I can say about three years and a half of owning Sportsters. Kludge. So far the V-Rods have been better, but the same electrical failure, a wire that rubs the rear valve cover, has sent it to the dealer on a flatbed three times in six and a half years.

Harley Davidson, turning riders into mechanics for 110 years!
My current Sporty is an 06 1200C, my previous Sporty was a 91 1200.
I was actually looking at buying an old 72 IH Sportster, until I did some reading about them on XLForum. IH owners recommend valve adjustments at 3k miles. I read a lot about stator failures, oil leaks, etc... you know... just like all the stereotypes for Harley Davidson.

I have made an official sticky note on the replacement brake pads, and will plan to upgrade when mine are worn out.
Thanks for the brake fluid explanation. I was aware that DOT3 absorbs water, having been in the automotive field starting in the early 80s, but was not familiar with DOT5, other than knowing that is what is in my bike. I will have to look up what the recommended drain and refill interval is for it. I don't want any rustballs in my brake system.

Speaking of wires rubbing through, I have an 03 Honda Rincon that rubbed on the frame and burned half the wiring harness.
I have never had a motorcycle leave me stranded though.
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