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Discussion Starter #1
just read that the street 750 and street rod was going to be discontiued heres the link:
 

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not good new...
Not good news for India. All the bikes manufactured and sold in North America are built at the Kansas City Missouri factory. All that will happen is the world supply will now have to come from the USA manufacturing facility. All the XG series Harley Davidsons made in America now will be a very good thing.
 

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Not good news for India. All the bikes manufactured and sold in North America are built at the Kansas City Missouri factory. All that will happen is the world supply will now have to come from the USA manufacturing facility. All the XG series Harley Davidsons made in America now will be a very good thing.
i heard harley stoped making the street in kansas back in 2018
 

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I didn't hear anything about it. Even if it happens the production will just shift over to one of the other plants. A lot of people around the world like the XG series bikes, so It's pretty doubtful Harley will just drop these bikes because they wanted to consolidate the manufacturing from the Kansas City plant with another one of their plants in another state.
 

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There are several conflicting stories out there. The facts are HD is pulling out of India that make the 500 and 750 bikes for the world except North America and Mexico which are made in Kansas City. But all engines come from India. It's going to be an interesting journey for HD.
 

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Well I hope they keep making the models of the xg's I'm currently working with a aftermarket performance manufacturer to make upgrades to them using my 750 as a project bike so far we have an intake, exhaust, nitrous system and a complete bike stainless bolt kits done
 

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I would say to not panic until such time as we get an announcement from H-D itself. The author is making a guess based upon the closing of the factory where the bulk of the Streets are manufactured. Another article suggests that Harley dealerships in India may continue selling bikes made in Thailand. Is there a reason that production of Streets can't move to the Thai factory?

Didn't domestic production of the XG series bikes move to the York, Pennsylvania plant when the Kansas City plant was closed at the end of 2018? To be honest, I haven't seen a 2019 Street nor Street Rod let alone checked out the VIN to see where they were made.

The following line from the article is something that I wish had come out much earlier:
"In fact, the Harley-Davidson Street 750 used to Harley-Davidson India’s highest-selling model, accounting for over 80 per cent of Harley-Davidson’s sales in India for several years in a row."
<<< I made a lot of bad assumptions and did some bad math in this next bit>>>
Another article on H-D's future plans in India mentions that in the fiscal year ending March 2020 Harley manufactured just 4,500 motorcycles at the plant being closed. Figure that 80% of that figure would be 3,600 bikes. Consolidating assembly in one plant as speculated above begins to make sense when you see those low figures. Especially when you consider that the Indian plant was assembling all bikes other than the Streets from kits the same way the Thai plant does. Only the Streets were manufactured from the ground up in India.

Due to declining sales figures across all bike lines, York probably has the excess capacity to manufacture all of the Street parts and ship them as kits to be assembled in Thailand, just like they do with the parts for other models.

H-D has always combined reporting of the Street and Sportster sales numbers, so we've never had a good feel on production numbers other than what was announced in the 2019 brake recall. For the 2016-2018 production approximately 30,000 bikes were manufactured at the plant that is closing and about 12,000 of the recalled bikes were domestic US production. That's approximately a 70/30 split in production.

Doing some more math gymnastics, if 3,600 bikes was 70% of the global Street family production in the fiscal year ending March 2020 that would mean that the other 30% would only be something like 1,500 bikes to be made and sold in North America for something like 5,100 total units. Those aren't great numbers, but may be sustainable if manufacturing is reduced to one site.
<<< End failed math for now>>>
The 2021 product line announcement in the spring may surprise me, but I don't see our mid-sized bikes being discontinued until the second or third year of the Revolution Max bikes. That roll out is being slow walked, but will be happening. The models proposed so far, and I submit some that have not yet been publicized, are aimed at replacing the Sportsters. My thinking is that the Streets aren't going away until H-D sees what sells from that new line and decides that those models deserver little brothers.
 

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I guess I landed on my face in the math gymnastics competition.

Mixing domestic sales figures for India and plant production is apples and oranges. Does the Bawal plant production figure include those bikes assembled from kits for sale in India? It surely includes both Streets built from scratch and sold inside of India plus those Streets sold outside of India (but not North America). So less than 80% of the factory output is greater than the number of bikes comprising 80% of domestic sales.

To further highlight my math deficiencies, there is that Thai factory that assembles bikes from kits. Are they already assembling a portion of the 20% of H-D motorcycles sold in India that aren't the Street series? Also, is any portion of the 20% of sales coming fully assembled from the United States?

<<<And now for more bad math!!>>>

And of course we get into the swamp of "made in" as opposed to "assembled in". Maybe they aren't counting any bikes assembled form kits in that 4,500 bike production figure and those are all Streets. If that's the case and that figure is still the estimated 71% of global Street production, we're still looking at an annual output of 6,300 bikes or so between Bawal and York combined. That's not a lot of bikes.

IIRC, the combined sales figure for Streets and Sportsters for 2019 was something around 58,000 of which I'm guessing 6,300 were Streets. So if any of those assumptions are anywhere close, Sportsters outsold Streets about 8:1 last year.
 

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@PugslyCat , I'm with you that we will not clear picture of what the future holds until Harley make it official. Closing down a plant and combining resources in these times make economic sense. Got to admit, you had me confused with all that math.

27412
 

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Strange move, to be honest..
I've done some looking at various sources, mostly YouTube videos, and what comes up is that H-D sold fewer than 2,700 motorcycles in India last year and the factory in Bawal only manufactured 4,500 motorcycles, including Streets for the non-North American market. Until following the links in this thread I had no idea the numbers were that dismal. That just isn't financially sustainable.

Compare that to Royal Enfield making and selling over 800,000 motorcycles in 2019. Their product line consists of five models of bikes with engines between 411cc and 650cc. Two of those sell for a small fraction of what the Street 750 sells for, and the two 650cc models also significantly beat any H-D model on price. Some of the videos referenced a 350 Standard, but I no longer see that on the RE website.

From what I can piece together, a relatively expensive 750cc bike with modest ground clearance and suspension travel just isn't what the mass market in India demands. The rebadged Benelli 338 probably is. Maybe if they could have worked that deal out a few years ago there would be masses of Indians riding "xg350's" until they could move up the ladder to the xg750 "superbike".
 

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The Revolution Max line of bikes was announced in the summer of 2018. There was a throw away line in the Pan American description about the new engine coming in 1250cc, 975cc, 750cc, and 500cc. The only bikes actually announced at that time were the Pan American and Custom using the 1250cc motor and the bike later to be called Bronx with the 975cc engine.

There had been talk on the Sportster forums about the aging, air cooled Evolution motors being unable to meet the upcoming Euro5 emissions standards. Two of the announced engines were just a smidge larger than the Evolutions in the Sportsters, so it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the plan was to replace the Sportster line with the Revolution Max bikes.

Those smaller engine sizes, for which no bike has yet to be announced, caught my attention at the time. Obviously those engines were designed to go into replacements for the Street line of bikes. My guess was and is that H-D planned to see what sells of the larger Revolution Max bikes and make smaller variants of those bikes to replace the Street line.

The timeline has not exactly been what I thought it would be. I was anticipating the Pan America, Custom, and Bronx to hit the market as mid-year introductions in 2019 or to be in the model year 2020 product line announcements at the latest. Since none of those three bikes was a direct replacement for the Sportster, I figured such a bike would follow as a mid-year 2020 release or be announced in the 2021 product line (last month) at the latest.

Sportsters and their Euro5 compliance issues were a much bigger deal than the low sales numbers of the Streets, so I figured they would deal with the Sportsters and start replacing the Streets around 2022 or 2023. After all, having our bikes in the lineup wasn't hurting anything, so the problems could be dealt with sequentially. That may have been the plan of then CEO Matt Levatich.

New CEO Jochen Zeitz seems to be using different tactics. Basically everything that is deemed problematic is being cut immediately. His goal is to wind up with a much smaller, but profitable company as quickly as possible. At this point H-D has already fully developed the three announced Revolution Max bikes and probably has the production tooling. There are no big expenses preventing those bikes from going into production so they are finally getting the green light.

The Bronx is being delayed until 2022, but the other two are supposed to be out in 2021. I suspect that is due to the Revolution Max program, and possibly the company, hanging everything on the success of the Pan America. Zeitz has pretty much said as much. The Custom isn't likely to be as big of a distraction as the completely different Bronx would be. It's basically a baby FXDR and H-D knows something about power cruisers. Delaying the Bronx eliminates the need to have marketing teams competing for footholds in two different new to H-D market segments at the same time. The Custom also shares an engine with the PA while the Bronx uses the 975cc version, and I suspect that Zeitz has the goal of keeping the roll outs separate and simple.

H-D has shown styling prototypes for two more Revolution Max bikes, a café racer and a flat tracker inspired bike. Both of those were announced back in spring 2020, before The Rewire put all new development on hold. Cycle World did a write up of them in April of 2020. Some of the paperwork submitted for European patents suggest these will be 975cc bikes.

Additionally another forum I frequent has some artists renderings, more like back of napkin sketches, of two more bikes. Those are a cruiser and a fully faired sport bike (Bronx + plastic). No real details there, except the posters claim the drawings were part of a survey they filled out for H-D.

Winding this up on what may be a high note for us, I go back to the Cycle World article linked above:

"And they’re just the tip of the iceberg. In total, the plan calls for 16 new liquid-cooled V-twin middleweights across three ranges—two Pan America adventure bikes, nine streetfighter/standard models, and five custom designs—with capacities ranging from 500cc to 1,250cc. The smaller 500cc and 750cc models will surely be based on the existing Revolution X-powered Street 750, Street 500, and Street Rod machines <emphasis mine>, but the 975cc and 1,250cc bikes using the Revolution Max engine are completely new." - Cycle World author Ben Purvis

Now the part I emphasized is straight up conjecture by Purvis, unless he knows something that hasn't been stated elsewhere. The Revolution Max bikes previously discussed use a stressed member engine as opposed to the Streets engine engine being a traditional chassis mount. I don't know that the Revolution X engines as they currently exist would even be suitable for use as a stressed member engine. It would be kind of nice if our bikes had some future with H-D, though.
 
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