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Discussion Starter #1
I have read conflicting data in several forums on this topic. Some say there are no maps for XG750A Street Rod and some say there are.

So my question is does FP3 have maps for XG750A Street Rod and, if so, is there a map for high-flow intake and slip-on exhaust?

Specifically my bike has S&S Stealth intake and Rinehart muffler...
 

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Whether it has maps or not is imaterial in your case. The maps supplied will likely not cover your exact combination.


There are two options available for you:
1. Contact V&H directly and ask them if they have maps available for your set up or 2. (as I very much doubt they will have one) use the auto tune.


Personally I didn't even bother checking if there were maps available as I believe their maps would have been set up on a dyno run. In my opinion no two bikes are exactly the same and I would prefer my map to be set up in the 'real world' i.e. out on the road. So I used the auto tune facility and my bike runs and ticks over like a dream ;)


As I say though, if you contact them they WILL get back to you.
 

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Hello VortecCPI,

I looked in my FP3 and did not see maps for XG750A. There are maps for XG750. Like Botty said...I called V&H one time and they responded right away. I really dig my FP3. I am going to do the autotune as soon as the snow goes away.


Good luck!
Weshicatwelo!
 

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Well as I said previously I doubt your set up will be on there.


If you think of all the variants that are out there i.e. matching a particular exhaust to a particular air filter you would be very lucky if they happened to have your set up on. There must be at least several dozen (if not more) combinations.


This is not just a problem with the Street Rod - Look on any HD models forums and you will find threads that say the same - no match for the owners set up.
All that you will likely find is maps with high input air filters with V&H exhausts :(


This is why the majority of owners use auto tune.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
The difference between all the aftermarket intakes and exhausts is negligible as none are tuned. All the aftermarket mufflers are cat-back and NONE have any sort of tuning such as a reverse-cone megaphone system or a stepped-design system. The difference between S&S Stealth intake, VO2 intake, or any other aftermarket intake is also negligible as none uses long tuned intake runners. Zero tuning going on here...

My Honda CRF230F has a tuned reverse-cone megaphone exhaust system with stepped head pipe designed by Frank Nye at Engines Only. The result is leaner main due to stronger signal and reduced dilution of incoming charge. My Yamaha SRX600 has very long tuned intake runners that I fabricated after much R&D. Th result is stronger signal at the mains and slightly rich condition in midrange. The aftermarket stuff for XG750A Street Rod is NOTHING like what I have on these two bikes. If we had actual tuned intake runners we would have something like we see here in these dyno tests: http://www.phaedrus.me/id158.html

All I want to know is if there is a map for high-flow intake and aftermarket muffler - I could care less about the names used to describe either. V&H already told me via email the you can use the V&H muffler choice for ANY aftermarket muffler - "You will run the V&H slip on". V&H documentation clearly states ALL tune maps are for high-flow intake and ECM will trim trim as necessary:

"All FP3 maps are dyno tuned for high flow air intakes. If you have a stock intake, flash the map for your exhaust with high flow air intake – the ECU will trim the map automatically as you ride." < Does V&H imply open-loop, closed-loop, or both?

I am NOT on board with the so-called "Auto-Tune" feature anyhow. While the device may be able to tune for a very specific condition it will only be good at the ambient conditions at that time. If we run the so-called "Auto Tune" on a cold day at sea level and then ride a hot day up in the mountains what happens then? All the AFR map tables will be fine during closed-loop riding (they are not used) but may be far too rich during open-loop riding. Without closed-loop wide-band O2 sensors it is mediocre at best, which is why V&H DOES offer such a system as an add-on to FP3.

How many riders have run the so-called Auto-Tune in the winter and then run it again in the summer and got the exact same map results? My guess is nobody has done this as a test and, if they did, the maps are quite different. Every 5C/9F requires a 1% change in AFR and without closed-loop wide-band O2 sensors there is no way to make this happen. Of course the IAT sensor helps but I doubt it is enough to get it where it needs to be.

For example, my Twin Cam Road King was dyno tuned on a cool day at sea level here in CLT and when I rode up high in the mountains on a hot day it was so rich it started to misfire. Once I got back down to sea level it ran great again.

I have not seen even ONE dyno sheet for FP3 for different ambient conditions, with or without Auto-Tune. In fact, I have not seen even ONE dyno sheet for FP3 at all. All the real dyno tuners I have conversed with say it is junk and not to bother as it leaves far too much on the table. While I DO believe them I am NOT looking for optimal tune - Just something better than stock to ensure I am not too lean during WOT.

All I want is a map that is better than stock - I am not trying to win a Dyno War...
 

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You seem to already have the answer to your original question then?


'V&H already told me via email the you can use the V&H muffler choice for ANY aftermarket muffler. V&H documentation clearly states ALL tune maps are for high-flow intake and ECM will trim trim as necessary.'
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
You seem to already have the answer to your original question then?


'V&H already told me via email the you can use the V&H muffler choice for ANY aftermarket muffler. V&H documentation clearly states ALL tune maps are for high-flow intake and ECM will trim trim as necessary.'
I do not as there is so much conflicting "data". According to one rider there is only one map for XG750A and according to another rider there are four maps for XG750A. Which one is right and which one is wrong? Are they both wrong? For example, according to email from Dynojet too many users confused XG750 and XG750A so XG750A maps were removed and are now only available on request. According to V&H XG750A maps were removed from demo mode for the same reason.

To your point, what are the other three maps for?

This "Plug-And-Play" stuff is anything but thus far. I reached to to V&H several days ago and have not had a response.

Surely some rider can provide a screen shot of maps for XG750A...
 

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Ok, well if you can wait until tomorrow I will look at the FP3 maps that are available for the Rod and itemise them for you. My FP3 has updated today so I should be able to see all that are on there.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Ok, well if you can wait until tomorrow I will look at the FP3 maps that are available for the Rod and itemise them for you. My FP3 has updated today so I should be able to see all that are on there.
Now THAT is exactly what I am looking for! That takes all the assumptions off the table.

If you can do that it would be GREATLY Appreciated!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
FYI via email from Dynojet thy have but TWO maps for XG750A: "Bone stock and with a slip-on muffler"

That being said perhaps one of the four FP3 maps is "Bone-Stock"?
 

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This was experience with the FP3 and the XG750A....

Once it was married to the bike it made a copy of the default map and put that into slot 1.......Thank goodness as when I loaded a new map its caused all sorts of strange errors but that was due to me loading a map designed for California....I'm in New Zealand so no need for that stuff.

I emailed V&H and advised them of my setup (scremin eagle intake and exhaust) they told which map to load and then said if I wish I could run an autotune to get it dialed in some more, I did this and what a difference...

I have made two maps now by using autotune one for summer and one for winter.

Only thing that caught me out was the engine temp setting being to high for it to start autotune once I sorted that out it worked great and I can confirm it does make a huge difference to throttle response etc and much less popping on deceleration.

Def worth it for a stage one bike.....Anything more and your better of looking at a wide band setup.
 

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Ok, so I just got the FP3 app on my phone and allowed it to update everything. I purchased this FP3 in April / May 2019 so it is the most up to date one.


In the listing for maps in demo mode (which is the only mode you are able to view bikes other than your owns maps) there are no listings for the Street Rod.


There are many others for the whole of the HD range on there but the only 2 Street models are the 750 and the 500.


If you plugged a new 'unpaired' FP3 into your bike the FP3 would make a copy of your base map and from there you could carry out the auto tune.


I may have said this before but there is someone on ebay specifically selling the FP3



https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Harley-Davidson-XG-750-A-Street-Rod-2018-Vance-Hines-FuelPak-FP3/112969009393?epid=209933029&_trkparms=ispr=1&hash=item1a4d7a48f1:g:cdQAAOSwKSRa5sjd&enc=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&checksum=112969009393cb036e41921341e491f4d0da1da1c2b1&enc=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&checksum=112969009393cb036e41921341e491f4d0da1da1c2b1


It may be worth going on ebay and sending him a message asking if he is aware of any maps that are available?


Sorry I could not give you the info you were looking for :(
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Ok, so I just got the FP3 app on my phone and allowed it to update everything. I purchased this FP3 in April / May 2019 so it is the most up to date one.

In the listing for maps in demo mode (which is the only mode you are able to view bikes other than your owns maps) there are no listings for the Street Rod.

Sorry I could not give you the info you were looking for :(

V&H stated XG750A maps are not available in demo mode. I thought you had XG750A or else I would have mentioned it.

Sorry about that...
 

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Hi haven’t read all the posts on this topic but I have a street rod and an fp3 and there are apparently 16 maps to choose from! I haven’t changed the map yet on mine as I have only changed the air filter so have only done the auto tuning and the bike runs great!! Hope that helps!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Hi haven’t read all the posts on this topic but I have a street rod and an fp3 and there are apparently 16 maps to choose from! I haven’t changed the map yet on mine as I have only changed the air filter so have only done the auto tuning and the bike runs great!! Hope that helps!!!
Wow - That is very helpful! Any chance you can post the maps for me here? If not can you see if there is a map for high-flow intake and slip-on exhaust?

Specifically my Street Rod has S&S Stealth intake and Rinehart muffler. However I am sure V&H VO2 intake would work and V&H has already told me if my muffler is not listed to just use V&H muffler.

I have posed this question to V&H but have not had any response as of the moment...

Your help is GREATLY appreciated!
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
As you can see there are 16 in total but with your slip it takes it down to 2 but just so you know when I put in the rinehart slip on it didn’t give me an option for the s and s air filter but you could just auto tune it!! Hope this helps
Thank you so much!

According to V&H manual "All FP3 maps are dyno tuned for high flow air intakes. If you have a stock intake, flash the map for your exhaust with high flow air intake – the ECU will trim the map automatically as you ride." So I guess a high-flow intake is already expected to be instated. Also... Rinehart does not have a baffle option...

So from the count of 16 maps I assume four (4) manufactures x two (2) types - Std. Baffle/No Baffle - 16 total. All of which, per the documentation, assume high-flow intake is installed.

Awesome - I will order FP3 this weekend and report back...
 

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Vortec, thank you.

I am curious if an "opened up stock intake" is similar to a high-flow intake. Or maybe somewhere between a high-flow and stock? I look forward to what you find out on your bike!
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Vortec, thank you.

I am curious if an "opened up stock intake" is similar to a high-flow intake. Or maybe somewhere between a high-flow and stock? I look forward to what you find out on your bike!

I have ported heads and intake manifolds and have designed and built tuned intake runners for my SRX600 so here are my thoughts...


If we are NOT speaking of XG750A Street Rod... The stock intake system is severely restricted by way of the tiny cleaner/filter element. In my opinion that part is the limiting component. What we would call Plenum Volume is almost non-existent with the XG500/750 models. It also has very sharp turns the incoming fluid (yes air is a fluid) must negotiate.


From here on I will speak solely of XG750A Street Rod...

The surface area of the stock XG750A cleaner/filter element is not too bad but it does not come close to something like S&S Stealth or V&H VO2 cleaner/filter element so it has more restriction and more pressure drop. What we would call Plenum Volume is increased with the XG70A model but it is still pretty small.

With S&S Stealth or V&H VO2 intake we get more cleaner/filter element surface which reduces restriction and pressure drop.

With S&S Stealth or V&H VO2 intake we get more plenum volume which, very generally speaking, is good for VE and TQ/HP production.

With S&S Stealth or V&H VO2 intake we get more total intake runner length which is very good for our slow-turning 9,000 RPM engines.

With S&S Stealth or V&H VO2 intake we get radiused intake runner entries which reduces restriction and pressure drop.

With S&S Stealth or V&H VO2 intake we get less bend in the incoming fluid path which reduces restriction and pressure drop.

With S&S Stealth we get a "Stinger" that aids the incoming fluid path which reduces restriction and pressure drop. V&H VO2 may have something similar?

So... Lots of features that reduce restrictions and pressure drops along with more plenum volume and longer intake runner length. A gutted stock intake will likely be better but will it ever be as good as S&S Stealth or V&H VO2 intake? The answer is clearly NO. I would call it "Improved Intake" but not "High Flow Intake".


I am also very much looking forward to what happens with the V&H Fuelpak FP3. A lot of riders do intake and exhaust and FP3 all at the same time and them rave about power increase but how much of that is due to each component? I ran my bike first with just Rinehart pipe and then with pipe and S&S Stealth intake. Bike runs very strong just about everywhere except from high-mid to very top - Up there it's a little flat and likely a bit too lean.

All I want from V&H Fuelpak FP3 is to fix that lean area from high-mid to very top. The only other thing I want is lower idle speed. In my opinion the 1,350 target idle speed is way too high so I want to lower it a bit.

Attached is dyno sheet from S&S for XG750A Street Rod with intake and exhaust for reference. Note intake does little below 4,500 RPM and I do not find that surprising.
 

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