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Discussion starter · #21 · (Edited)
I can still highly recommend the combo you are wanting to run but I would also recommend adding the S&S Grand National slip on. It is one quality piece and sounds great without being obnoxious. I left the dB baffle in place.

The ONLY issue that V&H's is still trying to work out is the rev limiter. With the previous update I was asked by the V&H's customer rep via the tech folks to set the rev limiter at 12K rpm to get it back to the stock 9K rpm. This has worked until they get the programming for the rev limiter deciphered.

On the idle control. This works. I have mine stepped from OEM down to 1100rpm as it gets to operating temp. IMHO 1100rpm has proven to be the sweet spot for a warm rpm.

Any other questions please ask.
 
Biggest problem with the FP3, It "Locks" to the original bike. So it cant be used to Tune another HD. It can only be used as a Scan Tool.
 
Life great thanks Phil. I already have the V&H Competition slip on on the bike from new. So the tuner and filter are the next step. I will let you know how it goes.

Cheers
 
Life great thanks Phil. I already have the V&H Competition slip on on the bike from new. So the tuner and filter are the next step. I will let you know how it goes.

Cheers
There's probably not much between these mufflers in all honesty Steve, both manufacturers are well respected in the tuning/tweaking market, and V&H did manage to coax 100hp out of a Street!
 
Well, the other thing to remember about the FP3 is that using it will void your warranty immediately. When I first got my 2015 Street, it seemed like the FP3 was "the thing" to do. You got your Street, you got your FP3, you celebrated.

Since then, for 2017-2018-2019-2020 model years, the rules have changed, and using an FP3 on any of those bikes will immediately void your warranty. Not just the FP3 either, it's any aftermarket tuner; the MasterTune or PowerVision or any of 'em. I only bring this up because I know a lot of folks simply have no idea that the rules have changed. The EPA slapped Harley hard and Harley is now bound by a federal court-ordered Consent Decree to void the powertrain warranty on any bike that's been tuned with any aftermarket tuning product.
 
........ The EPA slapped Harley hard and Harley is now bound by a federal court-ordered Consent Decree to void the powertrain warranty on any bike that's been tuned with any aftermarket tuning product.
Wow, that's quite a draconian stance taken by your authorities :eek:. It seems completely over the top when you consider the pollution caused by China etc, what possible difference will a few thousand motorcycles make in the grand scheme of things?

Even more worrying is what happens in the US today, generally impacts Europe a little way down the line.
 
Well, the other thing to remember about the FP3 is that using it will void your warranty immediately. When I first got my 2015 Street, it seemed like the FP3 was "the thing" to do. You got your Street, you got your FP3, you celebrated.

Since then, for 2017-2018-2019-2020 model years, the rules have changed, and using an FP3 on any of those bikes will immediately void your warranty.<snip>
So that does not apply for 2015 or 2016 bikes? I haven't bought a tuner because I assumed it impacted all bikes still under factory or extended warranties. I purchased my 2016 as NOS, with the warranty period starting on April 1 of 2017. That leaves just over a year remaining on the warranty. Plan A was to wait until April 2 of 2018 to install an FP3 and air intake.


Plan B was to get the genuine H-D turner. Others have noted that the FP3 provides some benefits for bikes with stock intakes and exhaust. Can the same be said for the H-D tuner?
 
Wow, that's quite a draconian stance taken by your authorities :eek:. It seems completely over the top when you consider the pollution caused by China etc, what possible difference will a few thousand motorcycles make in the grand scheme of things?

Even more worrying is what happens in the US today, generally impacts Europe a little way down the line.
You're right that in the grand scheme of things, the amount of vaping in Oregon alone probably causes more pollution than all the Harleys ever sold put together... but it wasn't really about that. It was punishment for rogue behavior. Harley was actively selling "competition-use-only" race tuners that let you defeat EPA regulations all day long. And Harley dealers would happily build the bike into an illegal configuration before even selling it to the customer. So Harley was seen as being complicit, an active and willing conspirator in defeating emissions regulations. And if there's one thing authorities don't like, it's someone thumbing their nose at that authority, so -- yes, they were slapped down with a big fine ($13 million or something) but also with a four-year probation that requires the company to immediately void the warranty of any bike that's been tuned by any non-EPA-approved tuner.
 
So that does not apply for 2015 or 2016 bikes?
The Consent Decree does not require Harley to void the warranty on 2015 or 2016 models, no. It is specific in its years, it covers 2017 - 2020. Now, Harley already has wording in its warranty that says that if you put the bike into a state that causes it to be illegal to operate on the roadways of the territory it's registered in, then they can void the warranty for that purpose; they also say that if you put on parts designed to increase performance, that is a warranty-voiding event, so you could argue that yes, all these things can void the warranty. Also, if you put a trailer hitch on, your warranty is voided.

Now, the point here is that this wording has been in Harley's warranty for years and years and years, yet we don't hear a lot about people whose warranty was voided for putting on an air cleaner. So you probably don't have much to worry about, unless you're doing something radical like a turbo.

However, Harley's quite strict about the trailer hitch thing; I found a thread on HDForums going back over 9 years ago where people were complaining because Harley saw a trailer hitch on their bike and voided the warranty.

I haven't bought a tuner because I assumed it impacted all bikes still under factory or extended warranties. I purchased my 2016 as NOS, with the warranty period starting on April 1 of 2017. That leaves just over a year remaining on the warranty. Plan A was to wait until April 2 of 2018 to install an FP3 and air intake.
Okay, so -- technically, that would probably be grounds to void the warranty, but it does not mean that they WILL void the warranty. Especially if you go with an EPA-legal air intake, you'll probably be fine. But only probably; you really should ask your dealer what they think about that scenario.

Plan B was to get the genuine H-D turner. Others have noted that the FP3 provides some benefits for bikes with stock intakes and exhaust. Can the same be said for the H-D tuner?
The H-D tuner does no good to a stock bike. It can only be used when you have at least a Stage I (intake & exhaust upgrade). The FP3, as a product, is way better than the HD tuner (I know, I have had both). If you get an intake and exhaust, the H-D tuner should be able to handle it and keep everything EPA-compliant and street legal. But you won't get the goodies that the FP3 has, like the readouts of all the temperatures and MPG and voltmeter and all the other things the FP3 does.

It's all a gamble. You may never have a problem; I had my Street 750 for 2 years, never had even the slightest hint of repair needs. But Inky750 and TusconMax1 have had endless problems with theirs. I think Max was running the FP3 and never had warranty problems at his dealer, so maybe it's okay for pre-2017 bikes, or maybe his dealer just didn't care to rat him out. Again, you should consult with your dealer as to what they think.

That's not an option for those of us with 2017 - 2021 bikes. The dealer has no say, Harley automatically immediately voids the powertrain warranty on any 2017-2021 model that's been tuned with an aftermarket tuner, no choice about it.
 
This also very much depends on the relationship you have with your dealer. Not everything is black and white.
In general that's quite true, especially when it comes to things like an exhaust system or an intake.

But there is one thing that is very black-and-white, and that is the use of an aftermarket tuner on a 2017-2021 model. The dealer doesn't get a say. Harley doesn't get a say. It is required by a court order and a directive from the federal government that they MUST void the powertrain warranty immediately, if they have any knowledge that a non-EPA-compliant tuner was used on the bike. Period, end of statement, no ifs, ands, or buts.

And re-loading the stock tune doesn't help. I've been told the ECM knows that it's been tuned, and apparently it will "phone home" when connected to the digital diagnostic tools that Harley uses to read the error codes etc. There's nothing the dealer can do about that; if they don't plug in the tool they can't diagnose the problem, and if they do plug it in, the ECM will alert Harley that it's been flashed. Harley can't just look the other way, they're under mandate from the courts on this one.

Now, I guess you could always just go to an independent shop for your repairs, because the independent shop wouldn't have the Harley diagnostic tool, but then -- you'll be paying for the repairs anyway, so that's effectively the same thing as having a voided warranty.

Moral of the story: whatever else you do, don't use an aftermarket tuner on a 2017-2020 bike or you WILL void your warranty the moment you tune it. The Pro Street Tuner #4100008C is the only tuner you can use with a 2017-2020 Harley and maintain the powertrain warranty. And yes, that is black and white.
 
Discussion starter · #36 ·
No worries, I'm good. I had this conversation with my long term dealer at the time of purchase. Went over exactly what I had planned with them with already knowing what you are talking about. Others? Your mileage may very.
 
Hey scooter, hope your well, FP3 etc fitted today and flashed the basic map onto my street rod. Going to run the auto tune as well. Can you run an idiot through how to lower the idle speed please ? Concerned I may press the self destruct button. Cheers
 
Discussion starter · #39 ·
The demo mode doesn't show this. I'd have to have the FP3 connected to the bike to follow the steps. I honestly can't remember the steps without going through it again myself. If the freezing rain/snow lets up today I'll venture out to the garage (detached in an apt. complex) and try it again making notes as I go along.

When I did it I just fumbled my way through as there were no instructions. Nothing will change until you hit the lightening bolt to flash the modifications to the tune.
 
I managed to find it much like you, more by accident than design. Changed the values to 1150rpm. Settles down to that when hot fine.
Took the bike out for an hour on auto tune, but did not seem to come up with much on the map ! Perhaps if there is nothing to learn there is nothing to show. I will try it again next long ride out. Bike feels much better, smoother throttle response and nicer pick up. Sound from V&H comp slip on seems deeper too.
 
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